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Messages - SilverPrince

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FFX-3 Speculation and Developments / Re: Final Fantasy X-2.5 : The Truth
« on: December 15, 2014, 01:43:28 am »
So Tidus is an incarnate spirit, what exactly does that mean?

And do we have an accurate definition of what an aeon core is?

I completely agree that they caused this mess themselves. But they need to at least repair it in some medium.

By the way, I did have a question. There was talk of Yuna and Tidus experiencing memory loss due to his "beckoning" correct? And if they both remembered it would be undone?

If that's the case, do we know what in particular Yuna forgot?

They could just say, "April Fools! The real X-3 will lead Spira into Gaia" and fix it that way. The first chapter alone already looks to contradict Last Mission from FFX-2.

Hard to say. You hear all kinds of different things about it. I think it'll only be undone if Tidus remembers, Yuna doesn't matter. In addition to that, it appears she's forgotten some things too, but it's hard to pinpoint exactly what's missing without the full translation.

Hello, everyone.

I actually found this thread via Google and have read through its entirety over the last couple days. I'd like to join in on this discussion (more on the thematic side, I suppose, since I know very little spoken Japanese and zero written). I would also like to thank you guys for keeping this discussion alive.

Reading these theories, explanations, and opinions has helped me craft my own theories and come to actually appreciate the novel's context in the FF X narrative (despite the absolutely terrible **** jokes that Tidus makes >.>). I've gone from outright hating the revealed information about the novella and audio drama to actually appreciating what Nojima is attempting to do and wanting to push for a FF X-3. Why? Because any sort of resolution is better than the open-endedness they've given us.

So, hi, please take care of me ^.^

The only reason there's open-endedness in it is because they blew a gigantic hole in it though. Sure, there were some things that could be asked about the ending of X-2, but that's to be expected since it's impossible to totally close a story. Now if you want a game that really has some loose ends, play Tales of the Abyss, if you haven't already. Anyway, the way the story ended was just fine and there was no reason to reopen it.

The fayth and Sin don't have too, too much to do with each other. The fayth weren't summoning Sin, they were summoning Dream Zanarkand, so even without them, Sin is still free to exist. His existence is maintained by Yu Yevon, which is a twisted unsent spirit, possessing a final Aeon and manipulating pyreflies to create an armor for itself. The only fayth actually required for Sin to exist is Jecht's, Zaon's, or one of the other four FAs.

I thank you. I wasn't aware that the novel was included with the game and thought it was a standalone thing. I also didn't know about the, "Was there more?"

I know there's more to it than the book and novella say too. Yuna and Kurgum saying the exact same things to their companions, with Kurgum saying only summoners can understand is indicative that Yuna broke it off with Tidus for the "summoner thing", and told him she loved someone else in hopes he wouldn't pursue. And besides that, if they made an X-3 and ruined the relationship between Tidus and Yuna permanently, that'd enrage so many fans. Square Enix is already walking a tight rope with fans after XIII(-2)(-3), they'd be idiots to rock the boat even further.

And.. I'm not trying to<i> totally</i> deny it being canon, I apologize for it coming out that way. I just see so many flaws with it, and that seems so unlike the team. FFX was an amazing game. There weren't very many loose ends left over, there was a lot of subtle foreshadowing that only makes sense you're second playthrough ("What if she comes on to me?" "That's.. not gonna happen."), and they delicately wrapped players around their fingers. To put out something with so many contradictions to the original, and something that takes a perfectly closed story and bust it open seems so unlike them. Especially since the Ultimania interview where they mentioned the worlds of FFVII and FFX being related, meaning there is a perfect place for them to expand with a sequel.

All I'm wanting to do is propose an alternative. To let people read the novella and listen to the audio drama, critically examine them, and decide for themselves what they believe.. until such a time when there's an X-3 and it'll be undeniably canon. Seems a little pointless I know, but what if this is the end? You've seen the Amazon reviews on the Novella I'm sure and read all the hate for 2.5, a lot of fans hate it. Where does all this get left if this is where it ends? While I don't know if you'll agree with me, I hope the logic at least seems sound.

I'm still going to read the Novella, but I'm going to do it in two ways.
1. Loosely and with an open mind.
2. With the intention of not letting it soil the first two games.
Until X-3 is at least announced and has a plot synopsis.

Okay. Then you're not very bright.

Moving right along.

And you're not very good at debating if you're just going to ad hom and not address any of the points. How many Star Wars novels are there? How many are going to get tossed out the window when Episode VII comes out? If they conflict with the movie's canon, they get thrown own, they're not canon.

The audio drama takes place after & and references events from this novel.

It is canon.

I debate that wholeheartedly. All of my arguments are in the topic on the Inconsistencies and the meaning of canon, I'd encourage you to read it. It'd be one thing if it was just one of two minor discrepancies, but there are a lot of major conflicts in them. When faced with two conflicting canons (Doctor Who comics vs 50th Anniversary movie), the one in the dominant format ALWAYS trumps. FFX is a video game series, if it conflicts with the Novella, the Novella loses.

True, the 'Final Aeon' thing bugs me. Unless Yuna just lied to them (Again...) for some reason, because they broke tradition and used more 'modern' means to kill Sin off for good. However, Spira helped immensely in the final showdown by singing the Hymn of the Fayth, and it is implied during the ending that everybody was watching the battle from the ground. I don't think her saying 'The only way to defeat Sin is to tear into it and destroy its core' is gonna cause major uproars.

However, maybe she was panicking and just blurted out the wrong thing, since she grew up with that tradition her whole life and it naturally came as a first thought. But in X-2.5, she has her memories erased at one point. It's unclear whether it was her memories of the events on the island that was erased, or her feelings and memories of Tidus, which in return erases her memories on having an open mind about things and finding other ways to solve problems, which Tidus helped her immensely in that area. Either way is plausible, though considering the tone this is heading in, it probably would be the latter that is more likely.

On a side note: If X-3 does happen to exist, I bet a big part of the theme of that game would be lying. Yuna lying to Tidus about her new love, Kurgum possibly lying to Chuami about his love for Yuna, Chuami possibly lying to Lulu and everyone else about her father... It makes sense since Yevon was basically lying to everybody in Spira. The lying would start hurting a lot of people too, like how at the end of Will, Tidus is in denial about Yuna loving somebody else, and it's paining him.

I'm not sure it was either of those that got erased, that's something unclear in translation, right? Like you said, Yuna was most likely lying to Tidus about a new loves. The combination of Kurgum telling Chuami he doesn't love her, then saying "only summoners can understand", followed by Lulu telling Tidus he knows Yuna better than that gives a lot of indication that she's trying to protect him from something. Secrecy and lying would definitely play a role, if this is the groundwork for X-3.

Another small thing worthy of discussion is the revival of Sin itself. Sin is an armor, not really a being of its own. Yu Yevon pulls the strings through the body of the Final Aeon. So Yu Yevon would have had to have been revived. Okay, plausible. He's been expelled from Jecht/BFA, so he'd have to go back inside of him, and then start rebuilding the armor. Information derived from what we know of the Calms says this takes several years to do. Assuming this happened right after Yuna beckoned Tidus, that's still only six months. That isn't enough time for Sin to be rebuilt.

Hello, all. New to this forum, found it after searching for a translation of that abomination called the Novella. Looking at this small forum, I see a topic talking about canonical revelations, but I'm wanting to throw a wrench into it and examine some of the inconsistencies within that poke holes at the idea of it being canon. Without further ado:

The Shoopufs:
In the Audio Drama, Wakka talks about how the Moonflow Shoopuf was the last of its kind after Sin killed the last female 30 years ago. However, in Final Fantasy X-2 Shoopufs are seen in Bikanel Desert and around Mt. Gagazet.

Children of the guardians and summoner:
While this one is pretty small and not much of an argument, Lulu tells Chuami that people come around claiming to be children of Braska, Jecht, and Auron all the time. Okay, not very unbelievable. But take into consideration, the people doing this would be around their late teens to early twenties. I don't think many people would try to claim to be a child of Jecht or Braska, given that it would mean they're a sibling to Tidus or Yuna. Closer to elevenish, maybe, since that was around the time of the pilgrimage.

Final Aeon?
Yuna speaks of how the only thing that can kill Sin is the final Aeon. This is wrong for multiple reasons. First, using the final Aeon can't kill Sin. It will stop him for a time, but he will rise again. Second, the only way to kill Sin is to defeat him from inside and kill the final Aeon, then Yu Yevon; Yuna knows this. Third, Yuna never even had a final Aeon. You could technically count Anima, I suppose, but she isn't required to beat the game, and if it's the international version and you miss the destruction sphere, she isn't gonna be in your final party! Finally, Yunalesca is dead. While she could have been brought back like Sin had, I highly doubt she would be willing to help Yuna make a Final Aeon, especially after her refusal to sacrifice one of her guardians in the first game.

Begin edit: (This is one that came to me when thinking about the FFX-2 endings)
The translation for the first chapter of the Novella (as provided on this forum) doesn't fall in line with the true ending of FFX-2. It has Tidus returning, Yuna embracing him, and them returned to Besaid Village. The elders made Yuna change out of her risque clothing and into proper attire. The true ending still has her in her gunner outfit. While changing back to Gunner would make sense for Last Mission--going back to the way she was in YRP, I really can't see that being something she changes into to go to Zanarkand with Tidus.
End edit:

Definition of canon:
I'm a big Whovian, and canon gets thrown around a lot there. So let's go to the time war..

Comic books:
The comic has the time war ending at the hand's of the Eighth Doctor using a weapon called the Moment. The Moment was a de-mat gun linked with the Key of Rassilon. The idea behind this was the Doctor fired the de-mat gun and Key of Rassilon combination and wiped the Daleks and Time Lords from reality itself.

The 50th Anniversary special:
The War Doctor, which was a regeneration of the Eighth Doctor and LONG after his time, stole the Moment. The Moment was an ancient weapon from close to the beginning of Time Lord society that was locked away for its power.

The relevance? The Last Great Time War was forced into canon through its inclusion in the plot of the show. But the true end is the one that happened in the show. Why? The show is the main medium. If Doctor Who was a comic book series translated into a show, then the Comic Book would be the canon, but that is not the case. For it to be considered true canon, it would be necessary for it to be referenced in FFX-3, which doesn't exist as of yet.

Now inevitable, Advent Children will be brought into it. "Advent Children was a TV movie and is an accepted canon for the saga of FFVII". Fair point. But Cloud's character never gained full closure on the deaths of Aerith and Zack. The movie gives him that and allows his character to finally move on. Compare that to Tidus and Yuna who had a closed story. All their loose ends were tied, there weren't really any questions left to ask. Their characters were at peace.

Is X-3 coming? It is, we all know it is. But until it actually hits, I find it hard to consider the Novella and Audio Drama as hard canon. What do you all think?

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