FFX-3 Chat

Final Fantasy X-3 => FFX-3 Speculation and Developments => Topic started by: Danko Kaji on August 26, 2015, 03:28:28 pm

Title: Original Novel Translated vs. Fan Restoration Project: Thoughts & Introspections
Post by: Danko Kaji on August 26, 2015, 03:28:28 pm
Whew! Finally got Chapter 1 complete!

I wanted to point one major detail I changed:

Quote
He had fallen in love too. The day they had confessed to each other, Tidus had understood their story was impossible. Although it was a losing battle, he had refused to submit himself to destiny.

In the original, Nojima wrote 'the day they confessed their feelings for each other.' Or at least, that's how I interpreted it, because it's annoyingly vague, leaving much to the imagination. So, I decided to rewrite it as thus:

Quote
He remembered falling in love, too, with a girl he wanted to save. That night they confessed their feelings for each other, making love in a magical, moonlit spring, and the day Tidus finally understood the end of their story would never have a happy ending together. Although he acknowledged it as a losing battle, he put on a brave face for Yuna and forged ahead, refusing to surrender to destiny. Even if it meant him forfeiting his life would spare Yuna from having to forfeit her own, at least his sacrifice would have meaning.

Because there were several implications in-game and out (promotional artwork; http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120129121711/finalfantasy/images/1/1a/Tidus_%26_Yuna-1.jpg) that inspired me to believe Tidus and Yuna actually had sex in that fated Macalania Woods scene. Wouldn't be too far-fetched, given Nojima wrote the same kind of ambiguously, intimate scene before in FFVII with Cloud and Tifa.

What do you think? Should I continue the direction I chose to rewrite this?
Title: Re: Original Novel vs. Restoration
Post by: CrystalOfLies on August 26, 2015, 03:41:44 pm
I never believed it was full-on, stripped naked and really-going-at-it sex. I always took it as either a more gentle and amateur session or just simply metaphorical, 'spiritual' sex.

Or a mixture of both, like this. (http://orig11.deviantart.net/2717/f/2011/076/7/7/tidus_and_yuna_by_tapchamp93-d3bvfw3.jpg)

The FMV does paint it as a sort of otherworldly and poetic scenario, but I do think there was more to it than just two kisses and a hug. Even TV Tropes thinks so.  ::)

But I don't have a problem with them making love in an established work. They're humans too, and young ones at that.
Title: Re: Original Novel vs. Restoration
Post by: Danko Kaji on August 26, 2015, 03:50:56 pm
Yeah! I was just about to reference TV Tropes, too!  :D

Although I initially thought of Yuna as a virgin throughout FFX-2, it didn't seem quite right to me. Because Yuna blossomed (no pun intended) into quite the independent young woman in the sequel that it wouldn't be altogether that inappropriate if she lost her innocence in more ways than one during FFX.

Physical intimacy, especially of a sexual nature, is not something I want to shy away from. Not anymore, at any rate. I know fanfiction painted quite the negative stigma for it (ahemsmutcough), but I want to explore it tastefully in the context of an official work, especially in regards to possible canon.
Title: Re: Original Novel vs. Restoration
Post by: ChercheurObscur on August 29, 2015, 01:02:56 pm
uuum... It bothers me a little to let your topic dealing with your restoration project on the top of this part of the forum since there's my translation which builds on an official french translation of the novel. It could mislead people since the title of the topic is not very clear.

So, there are two options : change the title of the topic so that people know this is a fanmade, or set it non-sticky. I think the former one is the best choice but I let you decide.  :)
Title: Re: Original Novel vs. Restoration
Post by: Danko Kaji on August 29, 2015, 11:22:46 pm
Oh, no problem! I didn't realize it was unclear. I shall change it right away. And ChercheurObscur, I'm afraid I neglected to directly ask: are you comfortable with me restoring the novel through your translations?

Of course I will never forget to give full credit to everyone involved, but I suppose I never actually stopped to wait if everyone approved of the idea. I apologize.

EDIT: Oh, NOW I understand what you meant. Yeah. I didn't sticky my Restoration. I think CrystalofLies did, but I changed it now.
Title: Re: Original Novel Translated vs. Fan-written Restoration
Post by: ChercheurObscur on August 30, 2015, 10:33:12 am
And ChercheurObscur, I'm afraid I neglected to directly ask: are you comfortable with me restoring the novel through your translations?

Do as you want, I don't mind at all, don't worry. I just wanted to make it clear that this is something written by a fan.  ;)
Title: Re: Original Novel Translated vs. Fan-written Restoration
Post by: Danko Kaji on September 01, 2015, 05:18:59 pm
So, I noticed something odd while going about my rewrite through Chapter 2:

Quote
“I saw you coming.”
“Excuse me?”
Not really sure if he understood, Tidus turned in the direction of the ocean. The ball fell in the sand.
“At midday. We heard of Yuna’s return thanks to the radio, and I followed the villagers. I saw you emerging from the ocean. How did you reach this place?”

I never knew Spira had radios for communication, unless I missed it somewhere in FFX. Or could it be that Bria referred to the Commsphere as a radio? And if the radio he spoke of is indeed the Commsphere, how could it be, when the Aurochs (bonus points if you tell me which member did it) destroyed it during Blitzball practice?

Also, I always forget that, besides sphere-technology, Spira also has certain things like binoculars and cameras. Remember in the Thunder Plains when Wantz randomly ran by Yuna's party at the Agency, took a picture, and just left -- and nobody ever mentions it again? I mean, Seymour has an actual candid photo of his parents (sitting in his mansion, or was it Baaj temple? I forget where I saw it). I feel like the common little things that Spira shares with us modern day people draws a really vague line.
Title: Re: Original Novel Translated vs. Fan-written Restoration
Post by: Danko Kaji on September 01, 2015, 06:10:13 pm
I really find myself enjoying Bria's entrance into this story, but what I can't make much sense of is who is saying what in the end dialogue. Once I reach the part (Tidus shrugged, without obligation), it's not clear who speaks after, because the next two lines of dialogue aren't distinguished very well from each other, given Nojima's formal writing style.

Quote
“How did you get to Spira back then?”
Tidus stayed quiet.
“According to the rumour, Sin carried you.”
“I don't know what to say.”
“Do you think he could have sent you back to Zanarkand?”
Once again, he did not want to answer his question. Anyway, Yuna had defeated Sin: he did not have a way to confirm this hypothesis. Yet Tidus was certain about one thing:
“The city I had known does not exist anymore. It was the one from the Summoning...”
“I would like you to tell me more about it.”
Tidus shrugged, without obligation.
“Sin had spread chaos across Zanarkand. How could the city have survived such a disaster?”
“It does not matter. Recently, I have perceived a lot of signs... I think I will be able soon to resolve the mystery which has kept me busy for a long time.”
“Which mystery are you talking about?”
“The greatest of all.”
The man burst out laughing, and Tidus lost his temper:
“Are you making fun of me? What do you want? Did you come to live near Yuna or have you been transferred from Bevelle? What do want to tell me? What is the true motive behind your presence?”

Can someone please assist me, so I know how to interpret this?

P.S. Thank you ChecheurObscur for the translations, you are a Godsend. <3
Title: Re: Original Novel Translated vs. Fan-written Restoration
Post by: ChercheurObscur on September 02, 2015, 08:02:53 am
About the radio, I don't know anything at all, sorry.

I really find myself enjoying Bria's entrance into this story, but what I can't make much sense of is who is saying what in the end dialogue. Once I reach the part (Tidus shrugged, without obligation), it's not clear who speaks after, because the next two lines of dialogue aren't distinguished very well from each other, given Nojima's formal writing style.

Can someone please assist me, so I know how to interpret this?

“How did you get to Spira back then?” (Bria)
Tidus stayed quiet.
“According to the rumour, Sin carried you.” (Bria)
“I don't know what to say.” (Tidus)
“Do you think he could have sent you back to Zanarkand?” (Bria)
Once again, he did not want to answer his question. Anyway, Yuna had defeated Sin: he did not have a way to confirm this hypothesis. Yet Tidus was certain about one thing:
“The city I had known does not exist anymore. It was the one from the Summoning...” (Tidus)
“I would like you to tell me more about it.” (Bria)
Tidus shrugged, without obligation.
“Sin had spread chaos across Zanarkand. How could the city have survived such a disaster?” (Tidus)
“It does not matter. Recently, I have perceived a lot of signs... I think I will be able soon to resolve the mystery which has kept me busy for a long time.” (Bria)
“Which mystery are you talking about?” (Tidus)
“The greatest of all.” (Bria)
The man burst out laughing, and Tidus lost his temper:
“Are you making fun of me? What do you want? Did you come to live near Yuna or have you been transferred from Bevelle? What do want to tell me? What is the true motive behind your presence?” (Tidus)
Title: Re: Original Novel Translated vs. Fan-written Restoration
Post by: Danko Kaji on September 02, 2015, 01:01:09 pm
Thank you so much, ChecheurObscur! I guess I mixed them up somewhere after Tidus shrugged... Yay! Thank you again.  You're the best! <3

Hm, but the radio was an unexpected surprise. Perhaps I really do need to replay FFX and check out the NPCs. See what the world is like through the smaller details.
Title: Re: Original Novel Translated vs. Fan-written Restoration
Post by: CrystalOfLies on September 02, 2015, 01:23:37 pm
Thank you so much, ChecheurObscur! I guess I mixed them up somewhere after Tidus shrugged... Yay! Thank you again.  You're the best! <3

Hm, but the radio was an unexpected surprise. Perhaps I really do need to replay FFX and check out the NPCs. See what the world is like through the smaller details.

I also recall microphones (the Normal Ending to X-2 and the singing FMVs) and megaphones (Tidus taunting the Goers in X) existing, and Shinra has a big computer set up just for him. Perhaps spheres are primarily used for outputting visual feed, and recent technology such as Commspheres added audio to them. But that doesn't explain the spheres we find in X-2 that were recorded a long time ago. Maybe sphere technology is really expensive? Or maybe the main resource for making spheres -- the lakes in Macalania Woods -- are now dying out, and the Al Bhed are making machina alternatives which are known as our technology in the real world. Orrr, they dug up/drew references from the machina in Zanarkand's golden years. I recall there being a washing machine and a microwave in Tidus' boathouse!

You're right, it is rather confusing. But it's fun to speculate. :P
Title: Re: Original Novel Translated vs. Fan-written Restoration
Post by: Danko Kaji on September 02, 2015, 02:11:43 pm
That's true. Microphones, megaphones, and computer tower/monitor (that I believe Shinra customized or created himself) were all over the place, but I've only ever seen in hugely populated places, such as Luca and Bevelle, and used by characters who were in the fortunate position to have easy access to such things, let it be money or connections. That's a good point: sphere technology may be expensive, because of the manual labor required to harvest the water in Macalania. Do you need a working permit for that land? XD I love the idea of Al Bhed inventing alternative machina appliances to make up for declining natural resources (that does not explain Wantz's camera, though).

That whole digging up references from Zanarkand's golden years can only happen post-FFX, around the time Cid decided to use the ruins as a tourist attraction (instead of a national museum? What the hell, Cid? Use your damn brain. Ya could've wracked up even MORE money from that political venture; be funded by New Yevon, or Rin. You could have done it!). And when it came to Tidus's house, I'm not surprised. He's in a machina city much like our own cities today. He could have had a shower, too, and a toilet with nice pipework, and and and...

Yes. It is fun to speculate. XD
Title: Re: Original Novel Translated vs. Fan-written Restoration
Post by: Danko Kaji on September 03, 2015, 04:33:41 pm
Quote
Bria: “I beg your pardon if I hurt you. My life is a bit too complex to be summed up. Humans try to introduce causal relationships, but the truth is that, these links, we invent them a posteriori."

So far, this might be my favorite line of Bria, but I'm struggling to fully understand what he meant in the second sentence. I intend to fully retain it word for word, however, because it's an amazing line, and a wonderfully complex and formal line at that. I just wish to comprehend it more for my curiosity, in case I'm interpreting it right.  :)

All I get is that a posteriori is a term used to make a proposition based on one's knowledge from experience (in contrast to a priori, which means a proposition made without needing the basis for past experience). As for the word causal, is Bria trying to say that humans form relationships wishing for certain things to happen when in reality they unconsciously gravitate to certain kinds of people whom they are familiar with during early life? If so, that's a very philosophical, if not cynical thing to say! But that makes sense, given it's Bria.  ::)

Edit: I feel like Seymour or Baralai would have fun talking with this man. XD
Title: Re: Original Novel Translated vs. Fan-written Restoration
Post by: ChercheurObscur on September 03, 2015, 08:03:18 pm
Well, that's quite the sentence you've chosen there ! There was a time I was pondering on it !

I think Bria said that to Tidus because of what he said just before. Tidus was unloading some "rude" theory about Bria's presence in Besaid, as if he knew about it. He was unconsciously inventing the causal relationship, yet Tidus didn't care about that first... And since Bria's past is no bed of roses, this one answered in a grandiloquent way.

It may be the same for Yuna. Tidus only tried to find the reason of the distance between them after his conversation with Bria.

But if we think about it in depth, let's say that the moment you try to establish a causal relationship, this one is already gone, therefore you invent "yours" in the future. I hope you understand what I mean. I could provide you a similar explanation if you were to introduce a causal relationship before an event happens, in that case you invent it in the past.
Title: Re: Original Novel Translated vs. Fan-written Restoration
Post by: Danko Kaji on September 03, 2015, 11:53:20 pm
I see. That makes plenty of sense. Tidus's automatic response to any man associated with the Church is to doubt their credibility. It's no fault of his own, given his past experiences with Yevon were mainly negative. (Hey! Could you say Tidus based his first impression of Bria a posteriori given his resentment towards Yevonites?) So naturally wherever Yuna is concerned, he's highly protective of her.

For an extroverted teenager, Tidus is surprisingly introspective. Normally I would have called that out-of-character, if it weren't for his constant internal monologues in FFX. Not that I ever found them annoying or lame, I honestly enjoyed his narrative voice. It's just easy to forget he's capable of self-reflection (which many others tend to forget, too). Unlike Square Enix's poster boys of positivity, Zack Fair, Zidane, and Sora, Tidus has more than his fair share of insecurities.

Okay, how about this: Would you say Seymour wanted a causal relationship with Yuna to become the Final Aeon? Twisted, romantic feelings notwithstanding, all of his efforts forced her to do whatever that benefitted him in his end goal. As for Yuna's feelings for Tidus, would you say she developed them a posteriori? She fell for him, because Tidus embodied everything she craved: freedom, courage, and change. Because of grief and loss, first her parents, then one of her childhood friends, tradition and expectations stifled her, but she chose to follow them because they were familiar. But at the core of every Summoner, they wish to usher in change - the chance to fell Sin permanently.

I learned a valuable lesson in my Acting class about Characters and their tactics: No matter if it's selfless or selfish, we always form relationships with people when we want something. Intentionally or not, when we become friends with someone, or wish to pursue a romantic relationship, we want something out of it - let it be safety, money, security, affection, validation, etc. The feelings we develop for someone or something can be considered a posteriori, or even a priori because we want to experience what we never experienced. Heck, even Freud's theory that we are attracted to people who remind us of our parents of the opposite gender (for better or for worse) can be one type or manifestation of a posteriori.

Or am I getting too ahead of myself? XD
Title: Re: Original Novel Translated vs. Fan-written Restoration
Post by: Danko Kaji on September 06, 2015, 04:28:46 pm
You know, as much as I thoroughly enjoyed the Aurochs' scene of work and play, the moment Bria enters, I'm slogging through very stilted and awkward writing. It's such a pain to type, because my inner stylist wants to break everything and restructure it entirely. Sigh.

...This thread might end up just becoming my place for vent posts. I apologize in advance XD
Title: Re: Original Novel Translated vs. Fan-written Restoration
Post by: Danko Kaji on September 07, 2015, 02:36:05 am
In concern to Kush and her habit of 'vous,' what would be more appropriate?

Giving her a French accent and retaining that pronoun, or replace vous as 'my lord/lady' (and any other appropriate title)?

And as for the names Valm, Bria, Johit, Alb, and Ifahnal, should we retain them as thus (I do prefer them this way) or as how the FF Wiki prefers? Velm, Briar, Joit, Arb, and Ifarnal respectively?
Title: Re: Original Novel Translated vs. Fan-written Restoration
Post by: Danko Kaji on September 08, 2015, 10:54:51 pm
So, I noticed something odd while going about my rewrite through Chapter 2:

Quote
“I saw you coming.”
“Excuse me?”
Not really sure if he understood, Tidus turned in the direction of the ocean. The ball fell in the sand.
“At midday. We heard of Yuna’s return thanks to the radio, and I followed the villagers. I saw you emerging from the ocean. How did you reach this place?”

Now I see this in Chapter 4:

Rikku was keeping a close watch on the radar.
“A huge depression is approaching Besaid on the south,” she announced. “It is going to blow hard.”
“We must inform them of this.”
“The radio does not work,” Shinra answered, detached.
Brother yelled, but the pilot contented himself with a shrug.   
“It’s working less and less, and not only with Besaid.”
“Why?”
“I do not know, I am just a kid you know.”

The dialogue above seems to heavily imply that the radio is in fact the Commsphere. I don't know why Nojima couldn't just simply call it that, unless he wrote radio as a lazy oversight (like how he ignored referencing Vilucha as an official member of the Aurochs). At a later point, I'll change radio to Commsphere for the sake of consistency.
Title: Re: Original Novel Translated vs. Fan-written Restoration: Thoughts & Introspections
Post by: ChercheurObscur on September 09, 2015, 02:00:50 pm
In concern to Kush and her habit of 'vous,' what would be more appropriate?

Giving her a French accent and retaining that pronoun, or replace vous as 'my lord/lady' (and any other appropriate title)?

And as for the names Valm, Bria, Johit, Alb, and Ifahnal, should we retain them as thus (I do prefer them this way) or as how the FF Wiki prefers? Velm, Briar, Joit, Arb, and Ifarnal respectively?

Well, the pronoun 'vous' is often used in the novel, but I decided to use it only for Kush since she has a special behavior. Furthermore, there's a line in the novel where Bria remembers that special behavior - the use of the polite 'vous' - so... And you MUST ban 'my lord/lady' when it comes to Kush, that wouldn't fit at all ! :P

As for the names, I think those from the FF Wiki come from the japanese version ? But since I'm not sure, I think it's better to use those from the french translation :)

Title: Re: Original Novel Translated vs. Fan-written Restoration: Thoughts & Introspections
Post by: Danko Kaji on September 09, 2015, 03:08:25 pm
In concern to Kush and her habit of 'vous,' what would be more appropriate?

Giving her a French accent and retaining that pronoun, or replace vous as 'my lord/lady' (and any other appropriate title)?

And as for the names Valm, Bria, Johit, Alb, and Ifahnal, should we retain them as thus (I do prefer them this way) or as how the FF Wiki prefers? Velm, Briar, Joit, Arb, and Ifarnal respectively?

Well, the pronoun 'vous' is often used in the novel, but I decided to use it only for Kush since she has a special behavior. Furthermore, there's a line in the novel where Bria remembers that special behavior - the use of the polite 'vous' - so... And you MUST ban 'my lord/lady' when it comes to Kush, that wouldn't fit at all! :P

As for the names, I think those from the FF Wiki come from the japanese version ? But since I'm not sure, I think it's better to use those from the french translation :)

Aw, geez, I keep forgetting the French language does not pronounce every single letter in a word. The 's' is silent! I've been saying 'vous' wrong in my head this whole time. I'm such a dummy. XD I do remember reading that wonderful little detail as well; in that case, I suppose I'll retain Kush's polite vous and give her a French accent. There are many NPCs with ambiguous, foreign accents in the FFX universe. :P (On the other hand, having Kush call Valm 'my lord' in a childish, cute, whimsical tone is so adorasjhdfgjh. I don't know what to do! XD Am I the only one getting super playful and flirtatious vibes from her? Her dialogue evokes the most imagination as I write, more than any other character.)

Alrighty, then. The names from French translation shall stay!
Title: Re: Original Novel Translated vs. Fan-written Restoration: Thoughts & Introspections
Post by: Danko Kaji on December 24, 2016, 10:50:37 pm
Even though I know several of these threads are dead and fading away, I at least want to leave my retrospective thoughts behind...

So! Going through this novel, I honestly enjoy the interlude (Bria and Kush centric) chapters the most; I virtually fly through those! But once I return to Tidus's POV, it's like I'm trudging through the marsh of terrible writing while dredging up what's salvageable. I mean, it's not that the present story is uninteresting to me at all, because it really is! It's just... the writing style does not fit Tidus's voice. At all. If the entire novel was written in Bria's POV, alright, I wouldn't mind it, but not when Nojima retains the same style for every different POV. It's frustrating as a writer; sometimes it makes me wanna pull my hair out!

I plan to, once I'm done with rewriting the entire thing once, to rewrite it again but with a style or melancholy buoyancy that matches Tidus. I hope I'll have some willing, enthusiastic critics when I'm done and perhaps we can edit it together! :D

(Honestly, though, who would care to read or even want to read a restoration? Anyone? I need some moral support here. XD)