Author Topic: !OUTDATED INFORMATION! -- The Novella: Final Fantasy X-2.5 ~Eternal Cost~  (Read 110806 times)

SilverPrince

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Re: The Novella: Final Fantasy X-2.5 ~Eternal Cost~
« Reply #300 on: March 27, 2014, 08:38:05 pm »
Okay. Then you're not very bright.

Moving right along.


And you're not very good at debating if you're just going to ad hom and not address any of the points. How many Star Wars novels are there? How many are going to get tossed out the window when Episode VII comes out? If they conflict with the movie's canon, they get thrown own, they're not canon.

SoraxWare

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Re: The Novella: Final Fantasy X-2.5 ~Eternal Cost~
« Reply #301 on: March 27, 2014, 11:58:55 pm »
I'll explain in further detail then.

This novel was included with copies of the game in Japan. It's written by the original writer of both X and X-2. The reason it's called "X-2.5" is because its an immediate continuation of the story. Tetsuya Nomura (character designer) has said it's a story they wanted to give to the fans detailing what happens between X-2 & the audio drama (and ultimately, eventually, X-3).

If you go ahead and listen to the audio drama, they reference exact events that occur in the novel. Which means the novel is canon. I'm not sure why you don't understand this (I'm sure for absolutely no reason at all you're going to disagree with me).

Also, there's a note on the cover of the novel and on the last page that reads "Was there more to their story...?" and at the end of the book it ends with "To be continued in -Will-".

That's a direct link between the two stories.

Your example of "there's lots of Star Wars novels"... yes. There are... They're ALL published fan-fictions. They're not attempting to be considered canon.

This novel, "Eternal Cost (still think it should be Price For An Eternity)" is written by the SAME people who wrote both of the games. It's the same creative mind who thought up the world. It's just as canon as "Birth By Sleep" was when that game was released on PSP. It being on a different form of media has nothing to do with anything if it's by the official creator.

If you don't read the novel before listening to the audio drama, you are going to be confused. You are not going to know what's happening because everything that's missing from -Will- is explained in the novel.

The audio drama doesn't explain:

Who the two new characters are clearly.

Why Yuna and Tidus aren't together anymore.

Why Sin is coming back.

Why Tidus is bandaged around the head (reference to the explosion and the fact that he wasn't revived properly).


I really hope you understand now, if not, then there's nothing I can do for you. But yes. This novel is ENTIRELY canon. It isn't a fan fiction. It isn't an 'optional' story that isn't going to be brought up again. It's called 2.5 for a reason. It's leading the fans into X-3 in the form of a book. An official book by the official creators. Not a book written by some loner-nerd who is obsessed with the game and made up some stupid story.

There you go ^_^

SilverPrince

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Re: The Novella: Final Fantasy X-2.5 ~Eternal Cost~
« Reply #302 on: March 28, 2014, 12:38:53 am »
I thank you. I wasn't aware that the novel was included with the game and thought it was a standalone thing. I also didn't know about the, "Was there more?"

I know there's more to it than the book and novella say too. Yuna and Kurgum saying the exact same things to their companions, with Kurgum saying only summoners can understand is indicative that Yuna broke it off with Tidus for the "summoner thing", and told him she loved someone else in hopes he wouldn't pursue. And besides that, if they made an X-3 and ruined the relationship between Tidus and Yuna permanently, that'd enrage so many fans. Square Enix is already walking a tight rope with fans after XIII(-2)(-3), they'd be idiots to rock the boat even further.

And.. I'm not trying to<i> totally</i> deny it being canon, I apologize for it coming out that way. I just see so many flaws with it, and that seems so unlike the team. FFX was an amazing game. There weren't very many loose ends left over, there was a lot of subtle foreshadowing that only makes sense you're second playthrough ("What if she comes on to me?" "That's.. not gonna happen."), and they delicately wrapped players around their fingers. To put out something with so many contradictions to the original, and something that takes a perfectly closed story and bust it open seems so unlike them. Especially since the Ultimania interview where they mentioned the worlds of FFVII and FFX being related, meaning there is a perfect place for them to expand with a sequel.

All I'm wanting to do is propose an alternative. To let people read the novella and listen to the audio drama, critically examine them, and decide for themselves what they believe.. until such a time when there's an X-3 and it'll be undeniably canon. Seems a little pointless I know, but what if this is the end? You've seen the Amazon reviews on the Novella I'm sure and read all the hate for 2.5, a lot of fans hate it. Where does all this get left if this is where it ends? While I don't know if you'll agree with me, I hope the logic at least seems sound.

I'm still going to read the Novella, but I'm going to do it in two ways.
1. Loosely and with an open mind.
2. With the intention of not letting it soil the first two games.
Until X-3 is at least announced and has a plot synopsis.

city

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Re: The Novella: Final Fantasy X-2.5 ~Eternal Cost~
« Reply #303 on: March 28, 2014, 05:03:23 am »
I think we should keep in mind that while this is technically cannon, it's not acutally cannon to the English speaking audience (and any not Japanese, I should imagine).  So while it is cannon in the sense that it is part of the story, unless it gets an English release, it would be as if, in the Western world it's not cannon - get what I'm sayin'?

For example I had no idea that FFVII had comic books, so I had no idea they were cannon, while I understood that 7, Advent, Dirge etc were cannon I never knew the comic books were.  Okay, hope I made myself clear and like I said, this is just how I think about the matter. 

Freyja

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Re: The Novella: Final Fantasy X-2.5 ~Eternal Cost~
« Reply #304 on: March 28, 2014, 10:02:13 am »
I agree with what SoraxWare is saying.
In the Final Fantasyīs  games there are just a few materials that can tell us about the history, universe, characters, etc: Games, films, novels and CD Drama. (Itīs understood that they all are supposed to be canon)

FILMS: We only have seen a movie of FFVII.
GAMES: Prequels and sequels of FFX (FFX-2) // FFVII (The entire compilation) // FFXIII (FFXIII-2 and Lightning Returns).
NOVELS: FFVII: On the Way to a Smile and The Kids Are Alright // Final Fantasy XIII Episode Zero // and now the new FFX-2.5

All they are a real part of the universe of the original games, that means they are canon. I have never questioned about the fact of the FFVII novels or FFXIII being canon, why we refuse to belive it this time? Because the writting is terribly bad, the most of us feel itīs wrong, or at least we think "wtf Iīm I reading?" hahaha


I think that we should respect this fact, but that dosenīt mean we have to share it: So we can go on believing that is not canon, or that is canon, we will be right in both cases ^_^

CrystalOfLies

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Re: The Novella: Final Fantasy X-2.5 ~Eternal Cost~
« Reply #305 on: March 28, 2014, 10:21:50 am »
Actually, now that I think about it, does anyone think that having Tidus' whole personality completely altered is Nojima's way of changing his character so that people would stop complaining about his attitude from X in a potential sequel? Cause that's what it feels like to me.

I swear, if Tidus' character pulls off a moody guy/Advent Children in X-3, I probably would scream. (All right, so his life sucks at the moment. Like, real bad. But he wouldn't be the type to sit around and moan about it. He'd go out and try to change it. Or at least... the Tidus from FFX would. :'() I always had the feeling that he was a bit... off in Will. Like, he doesn't want to fight for anything any more and just accepts what comes his way. (Yuna leaving him, his injuries, etc.)

So yeah, it's safe to say that I agree with Pyreflies. Frollo, if you please.

"-holds 2.5 over a well- This monster is an unholy demon. I'm sending it back to Hell where it belongs!"
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kk

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Re: The Novella: Final Fantasy X-2.5 ~Eternal Cost~
« Reply #306 on: March 28, 2014, 10:31:45 am »
I'm still dubious on whether to consider this canon. Earlier it was reported that the audio drama was canon but that the novel doesn't HAVE TO BE- you just take the main points, since SE never usually considers novel SUPER SRS canon. But I don't remember if that was said by someone reputable, or just us trying to make sense of what was going on, haha. Also, how are they gonna give us a canon story where Sin is revived, one of their most beloved couples are on the fritz, one of their most favored characters has a supposed daughter, and the world has just all together gone to ****... and then just leave it there? Like... that just seems weird to me. xD;; I JUST... DON'T... UNDERSTAND. T_T

Everything seems pretty okay until the end, like was said. ;_; Her having a little trouble adjusting to Tidus'... I think I've talked about it earlier, but I'm on the fence. I hope that it's that she's uncomfortable because, she's still sorta uneasy about the fact he came back from the dead basically. Her being bothered by his personality doesn't really... make that much sense... not when she's been running around like she has in X-2. Not when she fell in love with him at the VERY EARLY stages on X where he was still a huge derp. So, I'm thinking, maybe it comes off as coldness, but it's actually fear?? Because what if he disappears again. Or something... liek that. I'm not bothered by them having sex (it sounds like it was tasteful enough), or comments about her appearance. (This IS the guy who zooms in on Lulu's boobs with binoculars. l:) I'm... deeply confused about.. the dick jokes.............. ??????????????????? Like... what... hahaha. But whatever. I can excuse it. FFX and X-2 had to be T-rated. Maybe secRETLy this made sense for his character... I don't effing know. Or maybe he's trying (but failing) to lighten the mood for her. (Though, I would THINK he has a slightly better grasp for Yuna's humor because............. I can't imagine that amusing her, surely you jest.)

But I'm actually interested in the idea that the reason Yuna pulls away after the island thing, is because of tainted memories are effecting him. I can see her pulling away, if for no other reason than... GUILT. Technically, she did this to him. Right? But how would they fix something like that-- messed up memories?

And I still don't understand why Nojima felt it necessarily to kill him off again AT ALL. He was /ALREADY REVIVED/ mere DAYS ago. Couldn't you have just made him act weird from the get-go, and blamed THAT on tainted memories from when the Fayth brougth him back? His second death looks like it's going to be very off-handed and just... wtf????

And what makes me more mad is the fact that SE said they have NO PLANS to continue this???? >.e So...

if this IS canon...

THIS Is the final note they want to end FFX's story on???? Ruining everything and then ComplETELY leaving everything up to our imagination??? That's just... such bull... it makes me mad. >__>

...Sorry, this kinda just turned into an off-the-rails rant. I'M JUST... BAFFLED... in a bad way. A really bad way. surely you jest. But still intrigued. Sigh.

kk

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Re: The Novella: Final Fantasy X-2.5 ~Eternal Cost~
« Reply #307 on: March 28, 2014, 08:04:55 pm »
Wait, but doesn't this novel take place about 3 months before last mission??? So... ??? Yuna's unhappy with Tidus at the end of the novel, but is happy during the time of Last Mission (3 months later)? Then unhappy again at the time of the audio drama...? x___X

Ananda

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Re: The Novella: Final Fantasy X-2.5 ~Eternal Cost~
« Reply #308 on: March 30, 2014, 12:11:22 am »
I hate this thing! I dont even have any hopes in SE!
C'mon! Did u really had to DESTROY MY FAVORITE COUPLE AND STORY!? Even our dear translators dont want to continue 'cause it was traumatizing!
And i dont even want to know what they are planning with suppose X-3, seriously, my brain is still burning, still trying to figure out what Nojima was thinking when he was writing, did he want to destroy everything on purpose? Mental problems? Revenge?
I atleast will like to have a little hope on this, but i dont know what to think anymore.

Thanks to: our translators, thank you so much, even though u guys couldnt continue, but thanks :-)

And thanks to: Sora! Thank you soo much for your help in this translation, maybe we can finally see an official translation, thank you so much! :-)

And Yuna's and co. Coldness, im pissed off with that, wish i could comfort Tidus right now, it feels like everyone doesnt want him there, and everybodys so cold, even Rikku??! Tidus only said something innocent, and Rikku literally explodes by something so little, and i dont like those stupid "elders" either, poor Tidus, what a family he hs. I thought everything was gonna be ok, but heck i was wrong! :-(






And Thanks to: Sora, thank so much for this, im deeply thankful! :-)
And thank you for the warnings of the novel :-)
« Last Edit: March 30, 2014, 12:22:28 am by Ananda »
FFX ;-)

LM_Nova

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Re: The Novella: Final Fantasy X-2.5 ~Eternal Cost~
« Reply #309 on: March 30, 2014, 02:16:59 am »
I'm sure with the overwhelming negative response the novel is receiving there will be at least some characterization back peddling from SE. After all they want fans to keep pumping money into this and they don't deliberately set out to **** us off.

I wouldn't be too worried with Yuna and Tidus supposed break up. Yuna is acting like her old self again, which means more emotional vagueness. Odds are she dumped Tidus because she's in love with the Tidus who died on the beach and not this current incarnation. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if it is revealed that Yuna is the one who accidentally summoned Sin in her clumsy attempt to get back Tidus. 

katielizabeth

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Re: The Novella: Final Fantasy X-2.5 ~Eternal Cost~
« Reply #310 on: March 30, 2014, 09:52:34 am »
Hi all, newbie here!

Now, this is just my opinion, but, considering that my love of the entire world of Spira was THE best thing about my childhood and still means so much to me, and considering the whole idea that 'new and improved things are never as good as the originals from the past', I would rather the novella nor -Will- existed.

Honestly, I would rather have LESS canon for Spira, and have no potential of X-3 because of how disappointed I am. The only reason I would like X-3 now is to try and straighten out this mess, and that isn't the way it should be.

I was talking to my cousin, who adores FF too, and she said that -Will- was just like a 'soap opera' and I can't think of a better explanation than that. I am genuinely so gutted, I feel like my whole childhood has been crushed!

Sorry to be a mardy bum! But I need to talk this out with people!  >:(

CrystalOfLies

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Re: The Novella: Final Fantasy X-2.5 ~Eternal Cost~
« Reply #311 on: March 30, 2014, 10:17:51 am »
Haha, no problem. We're all pretty much in the same boat as you for the time being.

It's sad because... given the things we've learnt recently about Tidus' difficult nature and the Farplane troubles... this could have actually been a decent setup. A sequel where after Tidus comes back, he finds out that not everything about himself is normal, as he is able to do and go through things that normal human beings can't. Pyreflies_of_MJ once said that she would like a story in which Tidus is able to talk to the dead, and also communicate with fiends. That IMO sounds great, and allows for some new lore to be set up with how the fiends live and how the dead in Spira exactly work. Heck, we might even get some more backstory on the 'Fiend World' that one of the Fiend Tales mention.

It has potential, I'll give you that much. But it could actually be really great if it was... just written differently. Take out the 'soap opera' stuff between Tidus and Yuna, throw in a new threat instead of recycling Sin, get rid of the 'memories erased' thing, make Kurgum and Chuami slightly more likeable, make Tidus actually mandatory to the characters instead of just the plot, change EVERYTHING about the novel except the crucial-to-the-story bits and bam. Solid ingredients for a sequel.
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Wanna know stuff? Ask me. "I know everything."

I somehow can't answer? "... I'm just a kid."

katielizabeth

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Re: The Novella: Final Fantasy X-2.5 ~Eternal Cost~
« Reply #312 on: March 30, 2014, 10:37:23 am »
Take out the 'soap opera' stuff between Tidus and Yuna, throw in a new threat instead of recycling Sin, get rid of the 'memories erased' thing, make Kurgum and Chuami slightly more likeable, make Tidus actually mandatory to the characters instead of just the plot, change EVERYTHING about the novel except the crucial-to-the-story bits and bam. Solid ingredients for a sequel.

Agreed. The idea that Yuna brought Tidus back (although a bit repetitive due to ff x-2) would be good if some sacrifices have been made for that. It's realistic that the fayth having to put effort into bringing back a life that was already a dream would perhaps send the farplane into disarray.

More information into the process of pyreflies/farplane/fiends etc would be fascinating. And the Tidus link mentioned is actually a brilliant idea. God, that would be great actually... SE TAKE NOTE!

I actually feel like we are being mocked here. I mean, the fact that FFX is a massive emotional development for Tidus, ending up with him sacrificing himself for Yuna and Spira, and THEN having Yuna going through a journey of her own to get him back...and they just break up in a way that reminisces high school romances! I'm so devastated.

If they really had to break them up...make it epic! Make it plot worthy! Don't make it so melodramatic!

Ananda

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Re: The Novella: Final Fantasy X-2.5 ~Eternal Cost~
« Reply #313 on: March 30, 2014, 12:32:42 pm »
If they hadnt written so much drama in the novella and will, and put more effort and intelligence in the story, i would've been actually happy for a X-3, but, like katielizabeth said, her childhood is literally crushed, mine too :-(
And i know that many here are feeling the same as katielizabeth and me.

If they do a X-3, (which they said they werent, but i know theyll do it) then, atleast i hope they try to fix all that mess in an intelligent and amazing way, because i think (surprisingly) that this could have a good plot if they arrange it well, lets just hope it turns out ok at the end.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2014, 12:38:14 pm by Ananda »
FFX ;-)

Ananda

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Re: The Novella: Final Fantasy X-2.5 ~Eternal Cost~
« Reply #314 on: March 30, 2014, 12:46:48 pm »
Wait, but doesn't this novel take place about 3 months before last mission??? So... ??? Yuna's unhappy with Tidus at the end of the novel, but is happy during the time of Last Mission (3 months later)? Then unhappy again at the time of the audio drama...? x___X


WTH!?
Now that i think of it, it is
Because in the beginning of the novel is where Tidus narrates his experience at the happy ending of X-2, and of the celebration after the reunion, what SE is thinking?!

I thought the timeline was this one:
FFX
Eternal Calm video
FFX-2
Last Mission
Novella
Will
(Supposedly) FFX-3

Seriously, why will and novella had to exist!?
When they first announced the audio drama, i thought it was a brief happy story with everyone happy together, Tidus and Yuna happy, in love, Wakka and Lulu happy with Vidina, and Tidus babysitting him (XD i strangely always want to see Tidus babysitting Vidina, since i think it will be funny to see it)
Rikku with Gippal around Spira salvaging machina, Paine with Baralai maybe, Kihmari visiting Besaid, Tidus and Yuna visiting their parents and Auron at the farplane, Yuna and Tidus going to the Moonflow, since he promised her theyll go together, and just everyone happy, even Tidus joining the Gullwings!
And everyone happy that Tidus is back, everyone celebrating for his return and for Yunas success of saving Spira once more, and them being the famous couple of Spira: The high summoner who lived and save the world twice, and the most amazing legendary guardian who change the spiral of death by sacrificing his life and to save her and to save Spira, because Tidus deserves some credit, i see that no one said that because of Tidus' sacrifice, Spira is save, but since in the novella everyone doesnt want him, im not surprised!
So i thought everything was fine, that my favorite characters were going to be fine and happy together as a big family, but i guess the only thing that could make me happy is to write my own fanfiction of it!

And im sorry if i wrote TOO much, but i wanted to take this out of my chest :-)
« Last Edit: March 30, 2014, 09:54:36 pm by Ananda »
FFX ;-)