Author Topic: !OUTDATED INFORMATION! -- The Novella: Final Fantasy X-2.5 ~Eternal Cost~  (Read 71610 times)

TresDias

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Re: The Novella: Final Fantasy X-2.5 ~Eternal Cost~
« Reply #180 on: January 28, 2014, 07:35:55 am »
For all the unrest among fans this has created, I feel sure that if Yuna wasn't having a little trouble adjusting to Tifus's return, plenty of people would be upset about that instead. Probably saying "That's not how it works in real life," "She's not the same person she was; it isn't believable that there's no period of readjustment" and "Even when they got reunited in X-2's ending, Tidus himself commented on how apparent it was that she had changed."

Nojima at least appears to have made the attempt at satisfying all corners here. Yuna needed a readjustment period, during which Tidus was blown up and she was reminded of how much she had missed him to begin with.

Personally, I don't think it would have been believable for him to have just been dropped back into her life without some differences in their dynamic. She's changed. She's grown. She's more assertive now and more willing to think about her own needs. She can actually fathom having a future, which she had not had time for during their journey together before.

Much has changed. To pretend otherwise would have been worse than this turned out to be.

As for the boat sex, I'm not sure why people are bothered about that. They've just been reunited. They're young adults. Yuna snuck aboard his boat and "kidnapped" him with the intention of them getting some alone time. What was supposed to happen? A game of Scrabble?

Pyreflies_of_MJ

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Re: The Novella: Final Fantasy X-2.5 ~Eternal Cost~
« Reply #181 on: January 28, 2014, 08:10:54 am »
I don't think people care that they had sex, it's how it happened. I'd think most fans would be expecting something more romantic then say a quick roll in the squid which put their lives in danger. My main issue with it is Tidus ignoring the storm, the hell is that?

I question how much "realness" people expect from Final Fantasy, especially in a case where the romance has been completely idealized up until this.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2014, 08:21:31 am by Pyreflies_of_MJ »

CrystalOfLies

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Re: The Novella: Final Fantasy X-2.5 ~Eternal Cost~
« Reply #182 on: January 28, 2014, 09:54:18 am »
What Pyreflies said: I, and most others, do not mind the aspect of Tidus and Yuna getting it on at one point in canon. It's just how they initiated it that's bothering people on this board. Heck, remember when people were still talking about their kissing session at Macalania? There were rumours and implications that they did 'more' than just kissing. I think that they just put the fact that Kimahri was watching there just to balance out the two sides. 1: They had sex. 2: They just kissed.  It's like that scene in FFVII where it was heavily implied that Cloud and Tifa had sex under the Highwind. Ambiguous moments like that are what get fans like us rolling.

But with the boat sex thing, it's probably the most OOC moment we've seen of Tidus this far in the novel. Remember: Tidus ALWAYS tried to protect Yuna from harm in some way. Sin attacking the S.S. Liki: First thing Tidus did was grab Yuna's hand. Moonflow: Tidus dove in immediately after Yuna. Wedding: Angry Tidus is freakin' angry. Etc., etc., etc.. Even in the Spring scene, he still seemed pretty protective of her while they were floating through the currents, what with the hand movements and all. Like I said earlier: If Tidus is supposed to be the far superior one out of the two in regards to boat/sea knowledge, the opposing person being his soul mate no less, then why didn't he moor the ship to somewhere in an ocean where there are frequent goddamn storms!? Tropical oceans are the most likely to have storms away from the shore! It's basic geography! I have to wonder, is Nojima trying to make Tidus as shallow and infuriating as possible? This is the guy who literally gave up his life to save his girl, and now he disregards their safety to tap Yunie's patootie. I know it's small when you compare it to everything else -coughblitzbombcough-, but it's still really annoying.

Of course, we all would expect a bit of realism, even in a Final Fantasy game. Mild realism, as displayed in this game, is the emotions of the characters and the common sense that they may or may not follow. Fantasy is a different world with often different laws, customs and species. It's not something in which you can make up any old rule to get out of something, or appear extremely bizarre for the sake of awe or wonder. It's partially why it's called Final Fantasy: Each game or 'entry' has a different world with different natures, as well as different threats and people. If FFX was REALLY realistic, Yuna would probably be really depressed, Tidus would end up in a mental hospital at some point, Kimahri would be walking on four legs, and the gang probably wouldn't last very long against fiends, which are basically mutated dead people, AKA zombies. For all we know, Tidus and Yuna getting along as soon as they are reunited could be considered normal in Spira's universe. If Wakka and Lulu could do it, why not Tidus and Yuna? XD

And Tresdias, in regards to the 'Bahamut created Tidus' thing, sorry for confusing you. We see throughout X that Bahamut very likely had a connection with him that was more special than any of the other fayth. In Dream Zanarkand, only Tidus could see him. The rest of the game, only Tidus and Yuna (and Auron) are 'allowed' to see his fayth form. (Of course, other summoners could as well, but Tidus was the only non-summoner that could at that point. Maybe the others could see Bahamut, but they didn't really address it.) He was the one who explained his and Dream Zanarkand's origins, and in X-2, you can ask him to bring Tidus back/initiate the Good Ending. Since the fayth are maintaining Dream Zanarkand, it could be possible that Tidus came from the portion of Bahamut's dreaming. The other fayth do have their own forms, which you can see when you revisit the temples after leaving Zanarkand. It's just Bahamut's fayth that appears to them for some reason.

But with X-2 and the whole 'Shuyin' thing... well, it is possible that Bahamut knew Shuyin and admired him. He and Lenne were popular icons in Zanarkand back then. Tidus is pretty much an imperfect copy of Shuyin's body with his own thoughts and memories.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2014, 10:14:46 am by CrystalOfLies »
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Internal Medicine Doctor

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Re: The Novella: Final Fantasy X-2.5 ~Eternal Cost~
« Reply #183 on: January 28, 2014, 01:43:37 pm »
Nojima is fleshing out these characters as people, with flaws.

It's not how we perceived them so far, but it's how he's decided to paint them in a post-Sin Spira.

It's unprecedented, and unwanted by a lot of people, I'm sure, but it's realistic. Nojima figured this was the best way to usher in a new story in the world of Spira.
After all, everybody has their faults.
He's just exploiting those in his characters.

moonstone

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Re: The Novella: Final Fantasy X-2.5 ~Eternal Cost~
« Reply #184 on: January 28, 2014, 03:32:56 pm »
I find it silly when people say that Nojima has ruined the story of X....he wrote it (well, he was one of the scenerio writers) and what he (and the other writers) wrote was obviously a success! Whatever he writes, I hope he doesn't change it just to please fans...I honestly dislike when authors have to change their story because fans don't like what it was going to be....it's his story and he should decided how to best write it....of course this doesn't mean he should ignore the feedback he has received, but he shouldn't have to write what the fans tell him to write because then it wouldn't be him writing his story but him writing someone else's story.

Yes, there are a lot of shocking events and information revealed both in the novel and audio drama, but these things are giving to not only provide information to the reader/listener but to also get their attention and get them curious, so whenever the story is continued people will want to read it or play it. Obviously not everything is revealed in the Novel or in the audio drama but it does give some hints of things that will be further explored and explain in the continuation of this story (whether its a novel or a sequel game).

Personally, Tidus and Yuna having an intimate relationship sounds pretty normal. Perhaps the way Nojima went about in implying how they became intimate in the boat, might make readers think that Tidus is just being lustful or it ruins this pure relationship that Tidus and Yuna have. However, when you start thinking about why he decided to have them become intimate at such a moment, during the middle of a storm...then you can come to several conclusions....such as...

It may look like Tidus didn't care about Yuna's or his own safety, by just leaving the boat without a captain to sail it, but Yuna was hasty herself as well by taking the boat out to sea, does she even know how to sail a ship? Aside from the fact that he was turned on by her scent....I think he probably realized that she went through all this trouble, taking the boat while he was sleeping, just to be with him...and it was probably here that he realized that he also wants to be with her...so this would explain why he just takes her and leaves the boat without a sailing captain...To answer her actions, to let her know that he still cares for her in the same way that she does to him. Yes, Nojima could've set up a romantic setting for them...but I think them becoming intimate in a storm reflects how their relationship wasn't smooth sailing since the moment they met. What I mean by this is that they experience a lot of things throughout their journey and in essence they even went through a sort of separation for 2 years. Yet even with all these experiences: meeting, separating, and reuniting (sad, happy, and mad moments together) their love is still able to flourish. I guess looking at it metaphorically.... Their love still blooms like a flower in the middle of a storm. Not only do I think the storm reflects their relationship, but I guess it was also use to intensify the readers imagination of how intimate they became (very wild...I guess... ::)).

So while Nojima, could've had them become intimate in a more calm and romantic setting, having them become intimate in them middle of the storm serves a lot purposes...a reflection of their relationship, the degree of their intimacy (of course this is up to the readers interpretation), and it takes them to the unknown island to continue the story.

Well anyway that's just my interpretation so far, based on the information/summary that has been provided. Of course it was a bit shocking when I read it, but when I thought about it doesn't seem as bad as the first time reading it. Personally I like how Nojima has gone for a bit of a more mature tone with the story, after all it's been 10+ years since the release of X and X-2, so the fans who played and enjoyed the game have probably matured as well! Nonetheless for a FF game I think this would be unusual with a darker and more mature theme, hence I would prefer it be continued through some other media form (a novel, or even a movie). Also if it's continued as a novel, it will give Nojima more free rain to write the story as he would like rather than worrying if content needs to be censored or not if it were made into a game.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2014, 12:36:22 am by moonstone »

Kuja9001

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Oh, my.


That's quite the load of new information.

I'll update the Original Post once I get my bearings on all this information. Is this a trusty source, TresDias? Or anybody else who knows about that site?

Ahh, nevermind that. After thoroughly reading, I see this is a trustworthy source. I shall update the Original Post as soon as possible.
Get the word out about this new information!

Site is very trusty, I'm from there as well.

city

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Re: The Novella: Final Fantasy X-2.5 ~Eternal Cost~
« Reply #186 on: January 28, 2014, 07:28:33 pm »
Honestly I am so disappointed in how this is turning out.  I am hoping that this novella never gets a Western release and therefore can't be cannon (in our market anyways).  I don't mind the audio drama as much but this is just too much for me.  My heart is broken, Tidus and Yuna's love story is what MADE FFX and to have it just destroyed for the purposes of a cash making scheme...  I am so, so disappointed.

catnip

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Re: The Novella: Final Fantasy X-2.5 ~Eternal Cost~
« Reply #187 on: January 28, 2014, 10:43:26 pm »
I can deal with stupid changes to Tidus' and Yuna's relationship (I never saw chemistry between them at all), but I can't with Sin coming back

that just offends me surely you jest. Like the past two games meant absolutely nothing. To erase something like that is absolutely ridiculous. I feel like they should have come up with some other big boss that could work in this whole mess of a situation. Something that could be connected to whatever it is Nojima is doing to these games.

Internal Medicine Doctor

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Re: The Novella: Final Fantasy X-2.5 ~Eternal Cost~
« Reply #188 on: January 29, 2014, 01:39:15 am »
Well, Sin coming back does have it's place in the storyline.

Sure, it would seem contrived to someone who takes account the first and second games,
but this new material provides plausible reasons for it's return
even though you may have wanted Nojima to go a completely separate route with a completely new villain.

I think there is more to this than Sin.
Sin won't be the main threat this go-around in Spira.
It'll be an asset of destruction to their adventure, yes,
but there is definitely some string-pulling going on behind the scenes here.

city

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Re: The Novella: Final Fantasy X-2.5 ~Eternal Cost~
« Reply #189 on: January 29, 2014, 02:57:27 am »
Hmm.  I think they could have easily created a new baddy from the Fayth who stayed around to keep Tidus for Yuna.  I always wondered at the end of X-2 if they Fayth kept dreaming to keep Tidus alive, that must've meant that other things could be too.  The Fayth could've become corrupted or... something I don't know.  But I just feel like there are a lot of better ways that this could've happened, minus Tidus' head getting blown up.

gyigyo

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Re: The Novella: Final Fantasy X-2.5 ~Eternal Cost~
« Reply #190 on: January 29, 2014, 03:12:49 am »
Looks like im the only one who is happy abot SIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIN is come back always loved to see in CG scenes and when SIN fly in battle that was cute :) :) :)
SIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIN

the only thing i didn't liked in the audio drama was AURON have a child thats too stupid thing they just created a chuami character after 13 year later surely you jest thats so stupid...
Chuami don't even existed in FFX and FFX-2 not a single word....not to mention she is IRRITATING!
Square enix ruined SIR AURON.

TresDias

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Re: The Novella: Final Fantasy X-2.5 ~Eternal Cost~
« Reply #191 on: January 29, 2014, 12:06:01 pm »
I don't see a problem with Sin being brought back. That doesn't undermine the value what was done before (lives were saved, the temples toppled, etc.).

And as IMD said, Sin clearly won't be the primary threat. Someone else will either be exacerbating the problem with the Farplane or taking advantage of it. Sin will likely just be an occasional obstacle in the way of dealing with that threat, as well as a source of despair as the Eternal Calm crumbles.

Quote from: CrystalofLies
For all we know, Tidus and Yuna getting along as soon as they are reunited could be considered normal in Spira's universe. If Wakka and Lulu could do it, why not Tidus and Yuna? XD

When were Wakka and Lulu separated?

Anyway, as you said, even in a fantasy title, "mild realism ... is the emotions of the characters." You can defy physics and we still buy into it, but you can't defy what we know to be human psychology and how our emotions work.

Quote from: CrystalofLies
And Tresdias, in regards to the 'Bahamut created Tidus' thing, sorry for confusing you. We see throughout X that Bahamut very likely had a connection with him that was more special than any of the other fayth. In Dream Zanarkand, only Tidus could see him. The rest of the game, only Tidus and Yuna (and Auron) are 'allowed' to see his fayth form. (Of course, other summoners could as well, but Tidus was the only non-summoner that could at that point. Maybe the others could see Bahamut, but they didn't really address it.) He was the one who explained his and Dream Zanarkand's origins, and in X-2, you can ask him to bring Tidus back/initiate the Good Ending. Since the fayth are maintaining Dream Zanarkand, it could be possible that Tidus came from the portion of Bahamut's dreaming. The other fayth do have their own forms, which you can see when you revisit the temples after leaving Zanarkand. It's just Bahamut's fayth that appears to them for some reason.

But with X-2 and the whole 'Shuyin' thing... well, it is possible that Bahamut knew Shuyin and admired him. He and Lenne were popular icons in Zanarkand back then. Tidus is pretty much an imperfect copy of Shuyin's body with his own thoughts and memories.

Bahamut's fayth wasn't part of the dreaming used to summon Dream Zanarkand. He just provides the Bahamut aeon. The fayth can see into one another's dreams, though. That's how he and the fayth of Valefor, Ixion, etc. knew of Dream Zanarkand, why it existed, etc. According to the Ultimania Omega for FFX, the fayth of Yuna's aeons would go hang out around Dream Zanarkand. Things were fine and dandy as far as they were concerned until Jecht becoming Sin made them realize how **** up it all was.

As for Shuyin, Tidus isn't based on him. Remember, 1000 years have passed since Dream Zanarkand came into being. The resident based on Shuyin has been dead for a long time. Tidus is implied to be that reimagined Shuyin's descendant, however, in X-2's Ultimania Omega.

Quote from: moonstone
So while Nojima, could've had them become intimate in a more calm and romantic setting, having them become intimate in them middle of the storm serves a lot purposes...a reflection of their relationship, the degree of their intimacy (of course this is up to the readers interpretation), and it takes them to the unknown island to continue the story.

Insightful analysis. I really enjoyed reading it.

Quote from: city
Honestly I am so disappointed in how this is turning out.  I am hoping that this novella never gets a Western release and therefore can't be cannon (in our market anyways).

It won't get released outside Japan, because these things never do. That doesn't make them any less canon, though.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2014, 12:07:32 pm by TresDias »

city

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Re: The Novella: Final Fantasy X-2.5 ~Eternal Cost~
« Reply #192 on: January 29, 2014, 03:45:41 pm »
^^
Hmm great post.  I think at the end of the day I am very happy that FF X3 is (probably) happening.  I know I will enjoy the game, and I will certainly buy it and play it.  I suppose Noji will have a purpose for all he's done, so I think the best plan is to wait it out and see what happens.  But I am certainly excited to see Spira again.

catnip

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Re: The Novella: Final Fantasy X-2.5 ~Eternal Cost~
« Reply #193 on: January 29, 2014, 03:51:31 pm »
omg smDH @ this little **** claiming to be Auron's daughter

don't you fn touch Auron, SE

city

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Re: The Novella: Final Fantasy X-2.5 ~Eternal Cost~
« Reply #194 on: January 29, 2014, 03:54:00 pm »
Hah hah yeah I'm not buying that either.  I hope that doesn't turn out.

I think it's pretty safe to say at the end of X3

Yuna is pushing Tidus away for a "greater purpose'' of possible self sacrifice?
Yuna and Tidus will be reunited
New girl and New boy will develop feelings for one another
All will be well