Author Topic: Final Fantasy X-2.5 : The Truth  (Read 19731 times)

Danko Kaji

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Re: Final Fantasy X-2.5 : The Truth
« Reply #285 on: August 24, 2015, 02:10:59 pm »
Whelp. That ending.  ???

I think what frustrated me the most was the utter lack of setting detail? Like Tidus jumping from one place to the next, the whole 'the elder ladies wanted to hide the accidental incident' for no apparent good reason? What's the point of ambiguously painting Bria as a villain? So he had the chance to relive his life anew, fall in love again, have a family, which defies the logic of him as an incarnate (dead) spirit? So does imagination serve as the fuel to pyrefly magic? Confusion everywhere.

I feel like when Bria called his relationship with Kush 'a puppy love, a thing of the past,' it seriously foreshadowed Tidus and Yuna's love.

I just think Nojima really hates the Tuna romance, because it does not fit with his original vision.

That's what I'm getting from this mess of a novel.
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CrystalOfLies

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Re: Final Fantasy X-2.5 : The Truth
« Reply #286 on: August 24, 2015, 02:30:24 pm »
Whelp. That ending.  ???

I think what frustrated me the most was the utter lack of setting detail? Like Tidus jumping from one place to the next, the whole 'the elder ladies wanted to hide the accidental incident' for no apparent good reason? What's the point of ambiguously painting Bria as a villain? So he had the chance to relive his life anew, fall in love again, have a family, which defies the logic of him as an incarnate (dead) spirit? So does imagination serve as the fuel to pyrefly magic? Confusion everywhere.

I feel like when Bria called his relationship with Kush 'a puppy love, a thing of the past,' it seriously foreshadowed Tidus and Yuna's love.

I just think Nojima really hates the Tuna romance, because it does not fit with his original vision.

That's what I'm getting from this mess of a novel.

Not to mention, as kk said, how Yuna didn't seem to give a **** about reuniting with Tidus when it was possible that he might not have ever seen her again, and only a few days after their reunion. It seemed she was more annoyed that they were now stuck together rather than, you know, being glad? Relieved, even? Wasn't the reason X-2 even happened was because of Yuna's desire to find Tidus? Why is she suddenly being so tsundere? There's a difference between playful teasing and just being cold.  :-\

It's sad because this ending, coupled with Will's events, just gives me the impression that Tidus was just being led on and in denial of their failing relationship all this time. Which is why he seemed uncharacteristically depressed and soft-spoken in Will. You know what, maybe Obscur's 'corruption' theory is right, only Yuna's feelings were 'sealed away' by Ifarnal and then corrupted/influenced by Bria and Kush' underwhelming reunion.

Really, what this seems like to me was Nojima was looking at Yoko Taro's work and then going, 'If he can make his stories as edgy as he wants, then so can I!" :P
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kk

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Re: Final Fantasy X-2.5 : The Truth
« Reply #287 on: August 24, 2015, 04:09:51 pm »
I agree: the ending was very abrupt. It just jumped around from place to place. It's like he was on a word count limit and had to shove all of the resolution into one chapter.

And it does seem like he's trying to imply that Yuna and Tidus were just puppy love and that, with these new challenges they're facing (his summoned state-- not to mention Yuna's apparent total 180 on her opinion of him), they're doomed.

Which, I mean... okay... if that's what he wants to believe, then fine. There's certainly something to be said about love, especially young love, fading.

But aside from the fact that's such a weird thing to write about in a follow up to a decade old series that is renowned partially because of the iconic relationship between those two characters... he had to not only ignore canon, but alter it to get that point across. Like, why are you so obsessed with bringing your cynical vision to life that you ignore stated facts from your own game? o_o This has been a truly bizarre read, surely you jest.

I'm trying to enjoy it or to take something positive from it, but it's... difficult. xD

Oh, well. Nojima can keep to his fanfics, and I will keep to mine. :p

Danko Kaji

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Re: Final Fantasy X-2.5 : The Truth
« Reply #288 on: August 24, 2015, 06:26:40 pm »
In this case, I have a lot of bull to sort through in the Restoration. Believe in yourself, me. XD

Joking aside, I just want to prepare myself for the FFX-3, if not for the FFX-3 fic I plan to write someday. I was able to stomach a lot of things so far; except for that damn 'dead incarnate spirits can conceive with a living person.' I'm like, are you for realz, guys? Yuna's tsundere, OOC behavior's one thing; I can patch that up somehow, tone it down, something. Tidus being a poor hate child woobie, yeah, that's nothing new. But Bria having a kid? Uhhh, I think Nojima's retconning the crap out of pyrefly physics. We need Maechen up in here!

Oh my god, good stories can only stay good and consistent when you have a team of people, not a single artist or writer doing all the work. Because this is what we get when Nojima's green-lighted to write a novel for a possible, future game. :P Too much unjustified artistic licensing crossing into personal territory.

Er, sorry, I'm ranting at this point. It's just... as a fellow writer, what Nojima did was blasphemous to me.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2015, 09:00:32 pm by Danko Kaji »
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UltimaGriever

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Re: Final Fantasy X-2.5 : The Truth
« Reply #289 on: August 25, 2015, 06:59:46 am »
I don't think it's impossible for Bria to have kids... since he's pretty much like an unsent. They are as tangible as the living, only with a more fragile state of existence that can change as soon as they find out about their condition. That is what makes them different from the unsent: the latter are aware of being unsent, while the former don't even know that they're already dead.

I've always had that feeling that Bria/Valm was not so into Kush... I don't know why, maybe because of the moment he died, he felt like she was getting on his nerves, never considered how she felt about him, that it was only about him and his becoming of an Aeon Core without thinking of the consequences. Kush never wanted that for him, for him to live an eternity between life and death.

I thought there would be more to the story than this. I didn't get so many things. :( Like why Ifahnal summoned the island. Was it because of Kush, and how it reminded him of her? I mean, it was a war site, so many people fought and died there, why would he want to revive such a moment? And I have to re-read it to deduce why he killed Tidus.. :( Oh god. I feel so blind.

ChercheurObscur

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Re: Final Fantasy X-2.5 : The Truth
« Reply #290 on: August 25, 2015, 05:42:53 pm »
I thought there would be more to the story than this. I didn't get so many things. :( Like why Ifahnal summoned the island. Was it because of Kush, and how it reminded him of her? I mean, it was a war site, so many people fought and died there, why would he want to revive such a moment? And I have to re-read it to deduce why he killed Tidus.. :( Oh god. I feel so blind.

I think you're right about Ifahnal and the existence of the island. I can't see anything else.

About Tidus, I'll tell you everything tomorrow, since my article, on a french website, dealing with that point, will be released tomorrow. So don't worry ! :)
« Last Edit: August 25, 2015, 05:45:50 pm by ChercheurObscur »

ChercheurObscur

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Re: Final Fantasy X-2.5 : The Truth
« Reply #291 on: August 26, 2015, 01:21:40 pm »
Okay, now let's talk about Tidus' death.

Tidus was killed by a bomb which looked like a blitzball. This ball hurt the back of his neck and then fell on the ground. Now, let me tell you what happened before that. It's simple : the mecanical Bedohl living on the island put down a ball on the ground somewhere around them and kick it so that it hurt Tidus. And Johit ordered it to do that. How can I be so sure ? Well, let's take a look at the end of the novel... when Bria appeared on Ifahnal's ship. At that time, the mecanical Bedohl appeared from the hold of the ship... holding a ball. Remember what Johit told it at that moment ? "Now, kill the Guard!" I think you can understand everything now.

Now let's return to the beginning of this little story between Ifahnal and Yuna/Tidus. I'll get straight to the point.

When Tidus and Yuna were on their ship, this one suddenly exploded. The reason behind that is Ifahnal. He summoned bombs/balls to blow it to smithereens. How can I be sure ? Well, if you remember, Tidus smelt gunpowder at that time... as Valm did in the past before fainting because of the bomb (take a look at the third chapter). Then, Ifahnal let them in the middle of the sea, surrounded by monsters. In fact, he was testing them at that time. He was testing their love, their will, or anything related. He wanted to know if Yuna could revive Tidus thanks to her will, and to do it, their relation had to be strong. And finally, when he was convinced, he took them to his island.

On the island, he probably had to wait for them to come close to the base so that the mecanical Bedohl take them inside and take care of them. Ifahnal did that so that Tidus and Yuna think that the mecanical Bedohl is definitely an ally. He had to prevent them from suspecting the Bedohl. Yes, Ifahnal is a scheming man. And he helped Yuna to revive Tidus so that they think he's an ally too.

You know what happens next.

But I don't think he's a bad person. It's just that he wanted to end Kush's and Valm's story. A thousand years as an unsent is quite special, you know.

UltimaGriever

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Re: Final Fantasy X-2.5 : The Truth
« Reply #292 on: August 26, 2015, 02:20:48 pm »
That much I got alright, what I didn't get was why he was so keen for Yuna to beckon Tidus, even going to the extreme of killing him so it would be possible for her to do it. It just... doesn't fit. :/ It's pretty much like the reason for summoning the island at all.

I think Johit is a really sad man. He said that he wished he had died much earlier (perhaps during that battle?), that he regrets being so vain in his youth (he really looks like Bickson in my mind, that jerk from the Luca Goers) and his unrequited love for Kush. Maybe he had no other purpose than to summon, after his expulsion from Besaid when the Church built the temple there... pretty much like Yu Yevon, the very man he had fought against during the war. At the same time as he felt jealous of Kush and Valm/Bria, he'd erase the latter's memories about the former maybe in an effort to protect his existence, since that was what Kush would have wanted: to set Bria free from her and the war. He had a whole future ahead of him and only death awaited her. She chose to get out of the picture so he would leave, but that didn't work out and the "mechanical" Bedohl killed him.

Speaking of mechanical Bedohls, are they really a thing? Because the ones we saw in the story were actually true, human, only that Alb might have done some magic or brainwashing in them so they'd act "robotic". In my mind, they look like this, which is actually an Al Bhed kid. It's said that Alb had never managed to create artificial Bedohls. This should mean that the "mechanical" Bedohl we see is either a summoned one or an unsent that has been brainwashed.

As for the Aeon Cores, Ifahnal brought up a topic that's worth attention. The limitation imposed by Yevon on the post-war summoners have severely diminished their potential power. The knowledge of creating fayth has been concentrated into Yunalesca's hand and any other methods may have been forbidden by the teachings. If, say, Ifahnal had passed down his knowledge, he'd surely be executed and sent, and that was the last thing he wanted. The utility of summoners had been reduced to "defeating" Sin (that's what people wanted to believe in) and perpetuating the cycle whilst injecting false hope in people. Forcing summoners to use whatever fayth available to them and deny them the knowledge of creating their own aeons severely diminished their power. The Aeon Core was akin to the Final Aeon Yunalesca created - it was an impressive creature born from a fayth who shared a close bond with its summoner. Imagine if anyone could harness such power - the Church would be powerless. It could be said that the Yevon era was, indeed, a Dark Age.

Danko Kaji

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Re: Final Fantasy X-2.5 : The Truth
« Reply #293 on: August 26, 2015, 04:04:29 pm »
Thanks so much, ChercheurObscur! That's nice to know you've picked up all the pieces and tried to put together some semblance of a coherent picture. I'll definitely come back to refer to this later when I reach those parts in the Restoration.  ;)

The only way I can really justify Johit's actions as this point is broken humanity. He was obviously struggling to hold onto it, but after becoming an Unsent at such an old age, obviously clinging to whatever he could in such a dismal situation... no wonder his process for ending that particular cycle confused us all. It's the only thing that made sense to him, involving two innocent people to end a horrible tragedy.
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but they become easy with friends beside you."

Consider me a wandering 'Maechen' of FFX/X-2 lore.

UltimaGriever

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Re: Final Fantasy X-2.5 : The Truth
« Reply #294 on: September 03, 2015, 02:34:03 am »
Now that I think of it, the novella justifies Yuna's attitude in the audio drama (her going back to her old ways etc). Remember what Auron said at the bottom of Macalania Lake? That it was not Yevon, the temples or the teachings that gave summoners power, but the fayth. Yuna had recently seen proof that the art of summoning was not obsolete, that there were ways other than what Yevon's teachings taught her to believe in.

Given that she found out that she still is a summoner, that she never ceased to be one just because Yevon's fayth vanished, and that she now had the knowledge of creating Aeon Cores (that most certainly does not involve sex (at least where intercourse in itself is concerned), lest poor Bedohl males Johit turned into Cores), she could be trying to reach a state of mind in that she could be able to do just that, under the guise of "praying to the fayth". Doing that, not only does she sharpen her somewhat dampened summoning skills that she had not practiced for 2 years, but keeps encouraging the Besaid elders' faith.

Just my two cents on the matter. :)

sarahlyf

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Re: Final Fantasy X-2.5 : The Truth
« Reply #295 on: September 03, 2015, 11:02:14 am »
I have just listened to the 'Bonus Audio' an hour ago ...which turned my world upside down

Oh dear God..... what have I gotten myself into...

CrystalOfLies

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Re: Final Fantasy X-2.5 : The Truth
« Reply #296 on: September 03, 2015, 11:03:55 am »
I have just listened to the 'Bonus Audio' an hour ago ...which turned my world upside down

Oh dear God..... what have I gotten myself into...

Welcome to a whole new world of insanity.

You'll never go back to the fanbase again. :P
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Danko Kaji

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Re: Final Fantasy X-2.5 : The Truth
« Reply #297 on: September 03, 2015, 11:58:18 am »
Now that I think of it, the novella justifies Yuna's attitude in the audio drama (her going back to her old ways etc). Remember what Auron said at the bottom of Macalania Lake? That it was not Yevon, the temples or the teachings that gave summoners power, but the fayth. Yuna had recently seen proof that the art of summoning was not obsolete, that there were ways other than what Yevon's teachings taught her to believe in.

Given that she found out that she still is a summoner, that she never ceased to be one just because Yevon's fayth vanished, and that she now had the knowledge of creating Aeon Cores (that most certainly does not involve sex (at least where intercourse in itself is concerned), lest poor Bedohl males Johit turned into Cores), she could be trying to reach a state of mind in that she could be able to do just that, under the guise of "praying to the fayth". Doing that, not only does she sharpen her somewhat dampened summoning skills that she had not practiced for 2 years, but keeps encouraging the Besaid elders' faith.

Just my two cents on the matter. :)

Which makes me wonder if Yuna confided in anyone of the events in The Price of Eternity and to what extent. Sure, she mentioned using the Final Aeon in Will, but I doubt Lulu or Wakka, or even Tidus is aware she received the knowledge to make Aeon Cores, let alone are remotely aware of the fact Tidus is beckoned. (Damn, how many secrets is this woman hoarding?) I also speculate that Yuna may turn to Baralai alone with this information, because he's in the position to help her find possible old Aeons around the world, and that he would keep it secret as a political decision not to rouse the Yevoner hunters into action or prevent inevitable discontent among the people.

There are many possibilities for FFX-3, such as discovering the true nature of Sin, who the main antagonist may be (leader of the Yevoner hunters? Or whoever freakin beckoned Sin?), exploring the whole world to uncover more mysteries that the Dark Age of Yevon stifled, and Yuna coming to terms with her feelings once and for all. I do like kk's idea (from tumblr, hehe) that the best outcome for Tidus would be to turn him into a Fayth as the mighty LEVIATHAN, let's hear it folks! :D (Although I personally prefer if Tidus could finally rest in peace and chill in the Farplane. It's not good for the Tuna romance if Yuna's stuck romancing a Fayth. :P)
Lost in the winds of change~

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but they become easy with friends beside you."

Consider me a wandering 'Maechen' of FFX/X-2 lore.

Danko Kaji

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Re: Final Fantasy X-2.5 : The Truth
« Reply #298 on: September 03, 2015, 12:04:13 pm »
I have just listened to the 'Bonus Audio' an hour ago ...which turned my world upside down

Oh dear God..... what have I gotten myself into...

Welcome to a whole new world of insanity.

You'll never go back to the fanbase again. :P

Yeah, sarahlyf. It gets better.  8)
Lost in the winds of change~

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but they become easy with friends beside you."

Consider me a wandering 'Maechen' of FFX/X-2 lore.

CrystalOfLies

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Re: Final Fantasy X-2.5 : The Truth
« Reply #299 on: September 03, 2015, 12:23:46 pm »
Now that I think of it, the novella justifies Yuna's attitude in the audio drama (her going back to her old ways etc). Remember what Auron said at the bottom of Macalania Lake? That it was not Yevon, the temples or the teachings that gave summoners power, but the fayth. Yuna had recently seen proof that the art of summoning was not obsolete, that there were ways other than what Yevon's teachings taught her to believe in.

Given that she found out that she still is a summoner, that she never ceased to be one just because Yevon's fayth vanished, and that she now had the knowledge of creating Aeon Cores (that most certainly does not involve sex (at least where intercourse in itself is concerned), lest poor Bedohl males Johit turned into Cores), she could be trying to reach a state of mind in that she could be able to do just that, under the guise of "praying to the fayth". Doing that, not only does she sharpen her somewhat dampened summoning skills that she had not practiced for 2 years, but keeps encouraging the Besaid elders' faith.

Just my two cents on the matter. :)


There are many possibilities for FFX-3, such as discovering the true nature of Sin, who the main antagonist may be (leader of the Yevoner hunters? Or whoever freakin beckoned Sin?), exploring the whole world to uncover more mysteries that the Dark Age of Yevon stifled, and Yuna coming to terms with her feelings once and for all. I do like kk's idea (from tumblr, hehe) that the best outcome for Tidus would be to turn him into a Fayth as the mighty LEVIATHAN, let's hear it folks! :D (Although I personally prefer if Tidus could finally rest in peace and chill in the Farplane. It's not good for the Tuna romance if Yuna's stuck romancing a Fayth. :P)

Of course! There was never a 'true' water-themed aeon that we ever hear of in the Spiran lore. It turns out that Tidus would be the chosen vessel for Leviathan: The 300-mile-long demon that would destroy and recreate the world anew! :P

But personally, I would like to see the fayth's 'true motives' explored if an X-3 ever comes out. I would think that a mass of people subjected to a world-changing war, then being enslaved by their city's leader and forced to conjure the memory of their destroyed city for a thousand years would end up with some of them being... not the nicest, shall we say. I would even go as far as to say that some of them spite Tidus for relying on their painful dreaming to stay alive (maybe his murder was planned in advance by one of the fayth so that it would look like someone else did it/an accident, so that they could finally end their dreaming. Of course, it didn't exactly work that way...)

It would be a very 'the grey place between black and white' story. Are the fayth selfish for what they did, or are they justified? Is it their fault that they were forced to create Dream Zanarkand, which by all means was an 'accident' of the Machina War? Is what happens to Tidus their fault, or Yuna's? Is there a fayth that is 'above' the rest of them?
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