Author Topic: Final Fantasy X-2.5 : The Truth  (Read 31654 times)

ChercheurObscur

  • Administrator
  • Summoner
  • *
  • Posts: 159
    • View Profile
Re: Final Fantasy X-2.5 : The Truth
« Reply #180 on: May 28, 2015, 07:13:41 am »
I wonder why I'm the only one who thinks nothing's wrong with them.

I mean, think carefully. Tidus and Yuna have been in love with each other for only... let's say... 1 week ? 2 years have passed but you can't really take into account this.

Then while they were fighting Sin, there was a powerful link between them : Tidus' first goal was to protect and save Yuna from a cruel destiny, and Yuna was very concerned about it.

Therefore it's not like they have lived together in perfect harmony until now, it was just something like... a coincidence ?

Now people live peacefully and Tidus and Yuna meet again. But there's no more link like guardian and summoner, and while Yuna has grown up and has more or less matured, Tidus has remained a "scatty" person.

So right now, we have a brand new couple with two different traits, and they just have difficulty in matching these traits. They are just discovering each other like a real couple.

That's why I thing nothing's wrong there.

CrystalOfLies

  • Administrator
  • Summoner
  • *
  • Posts: 184
  • Boathouses, man.
    • View Profile
Re: Final Fantasy X-2.5 : The Truth
« Reply #181 on: May 28, 2015, 08:46:14 am »
But I think we have to take into consideration that the time they spent together in the game can't really equate to the time they spent in the actual story. Braska's pilgrimage was said to have taken three months. Meanwhile, Yuna's pilgrimage had a lot more problems with Operation Mi'ihen, Seymour and all, so it could have taken even longer. Tidus' personality changes a lot by the end as compared to the beginning; can that really happen in the course of a week? The events we actually see must be a condensed version to fit in with the pacing of the actual game. It's likely that Tidus and Yuna had a lot more moments that we didn't see.

And the thing with Tidus' personality in this novel is that it kind of contradicts the theme from the first game, that is Tidus maturing and becoming a man in his own right. But even then, I imagine that he would pretty 'out there,' considering that he miraculously came back to life because of the woman that he loves. You seem to be implying that this is a flaw. The thing about Tidus is that he's supposed to be someone you can relate to and think realistically of as a young adult. He's not supposed to be the generic voice of reason, who must always be in the right and act like absolutely everyone else who conforms to this reasoning. And I think that this is what the novella is forgetting, considering how it's written.

I think you're giving the novella the benefit of the doubt too much. Even I'm starting to get lost with what it's trying to portray, and I consider myself an FFX fangirl. :P We all try to defend the things we love. I've even done it myself with FFX's characters way too much, but we must all admit that nothing is perfect. Everything has flaws, including this novella.
The official 'Shinra' of the FFX boards.

Wanna know stuff? Ask me. "I know everything."

I somehow can't answer? "... I'm just a kid."

mamboitaliano

  • Guest
Re: Final Fantasy X-2.5 : The Truth
« Reply #182 on: May 28, 2015, 10:27:09 am »
I agree with everything you've said, Crystal. It's the point most of us have been making since the beginning of this; the characters just seem off. The good news is that it could all be creatively fixed in FFX-3 especially since a full game would have a team of writers, instead of just Nojima. I'm wondering if this isn't part of the problem. The first 2 games had multiple writers, where as this novel is specifically written by Nojima.

CrystalOfLies

  • Administrator
  • Summoner
  • *
  • Posts: 184
  • Boathouses, man.
    • View Profile
Re: Final Fantasy X-2.5 : The Truth
« Reply #183 on: May 28, 2015, 10:44:40 am »
Exactly. Even though the writing team was helmed by Nojima for both games, he most likely was under supervision by the directing team and the other writers. Since this novella is his own independent work, he has as much freedom as he wants with these characters. And I feel like he either isn't using their full potential or is even disagreeing with how they're portrayed in the games.

There's this old rumour floating around in FFX's development as a whole that Nojima proposed darker, more depressing factors to the story. One of the most famous being that Tidus was going to be an Unsent. This was shot down due to The Sixth Sense coming out at the time of FFX's development. Now that Nojima has a hold of these characters, it could be possible that this novella is a sort of 'revenge' towards the FFX team for not always getting his way in the story. Tidus is technically an Unsent now, after all.

Or it could be, as I've recently theorised, that this novella and the audio drama is all just... a big publicity stunt to get people interested in the HD Remasters. And to just get FFX into the gaming community's minds again. Unless they do something at an E3 event or one of their own events, this novella and the audio drama aren't really going to amount to anything other than controversy and Square Enix-brand trolling.
The official 'Shinra' of the FFX boards.

Wanna know stuff? Ask me. "I know everything."

I somehow can't answer? "... I'm just a kid."

ChercheurObscur

  • Administrator
  • Summoner
  • *
  • Posts: 159
    • View Profile
Re: Final Fantasy X-2.5 : The Truth
« Reply #184 on: May 28, 2015, 11:58:06 am »
Well, it's just that I think that it's not because someone seems to act seriously to resolve something that he has necessarily matured. And that's what I wanted to show about Tidus with Sin, guardians and summoners... and without. And what's funny is that we can see this change of mind depending on whether he talks about Sin, Yevon... or something else (the 16th chapter shows that).

But aside from that, it's not like I disagree with you. You're right, I'll stop defending them if everything goes wrong, but I have some hope there.  :P

And when the entire novel will be translated, I think you'll change a bit your mind about all this talk between Tidus and Yuna (there's a link with Ifahnal)   ;)
« Last Edit: May 28, 2015, 12:13:37 pm by ChercheurObscur »

ChercheurObscur

  • Administrator
  • Summoner
  • *
  • Posts: 159
    • View Profile
Re: Final Fantasy X-2.5 : The Truth
« Reply #185 on: May 29, 2015, 03:24:18 pm »
I'm done with the long-awaited chapter !  :D

But you'll be able to read it only if COL is not busy.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2015, 03:26:05 pm by ChercheurObscur »

mamboitaliano

  • Guest
Re: Final Fantasy X-2.5 : The Truth
« Reply #186 on: May 29, 2015, 07:14:14 pm »
bahahahahahahahah oh my gosh wtf, wtf, WTF?! Sorry, I just couldn't take this chapter seriously. Wow...  :D
« Last Edit: May 29, 2015, 07:16:16 pm by mamboitaliano »

CrystalOfLies

  • Administrator
  • Summoner
  • *
  • Posts: 184
  • Boathouses, man.
    • View Profile
Re: Final Fantasy X-2.5 : The Truth
« Reply #187 on: May 30, 2015, 03:57:48 am »
For real! One moment we're pointing out Yuna's blatant fanservice and then bam, Headless Tidus.

Man, with every chapter I'm just feeling more and more sorry for him.
The official 'Shinra' of the FFX boards.

Wanna know stuff? Ask me. "I know everything."

I somehow can't answer? "... I'm just a kid."

ChercheurObscur

  • Administrator
  • Summoner
  • *
  • Posts: 159
    • View Profile
Re: Final Fantasy X-2.5 : The Truth
« Reply #188 on: May 30, 2015, 05:39:16 am »
Haha ! Well, I feel sorry for him too there. But as you can see with this chapter, Tidus has not really matured.

Are you sure this was the aim of Square Enix with FFX ?

CrystalOfLies

  • Administrator
  • Summoner
  • *
  • Posts: 184
  • Boathouses, man.
    • View Profile
Re: Final Fantasy X-2.5 : The Truth
« Reply #189 on: May 30, 2015, 05:52:10 am »
Still, even if Tidus is portrayed as not being 'manly,' he really doesn't deserve all the stuff that's happened to him. I find it worrying that he's comparing himself to Auron of all people. He's just being a giddy teenager versus a previously heavily-religious teenager.

That Yuna has always thought of him as a child? Maybe. Still, what a detriment and a complete twist to her character. Their different outlooks on life was never a problem to their relationship in FFX, so why now?

I wish Pyreflies_Of_MJ was still around; I'd love to see her views on all of this, but alas. :(
« Last Edit: May 30, 2015, 05:57:07 am by CrystalOfLies »
The official 'Shinra' of the FFX boards.

Wanna know stuff? Ask me. "I know everything."

I somehow can't answer? "... I'm just a kid."

ChercheurObscur

  • Administrator
  • Summoner
  • *
  • Posts: 159
    • View Profile
Re: Final Fantasy X-2.5 : The Truth
« Reply #190 on: May 30, 2015, 06:13:08 am »
Well, I would say that's because Sin, guardians and summoners are no more. Tidus and Yuna were fighting for the same purpose at that time. I'm repeating myself here, but they were fighting like a guardian and a summoner above all else, not like a couple. Their conversations, their minds... they were certainly different at that time.

Now, they live like a couple above all else, that changes everything in my opinion. Furthermore, Yuna want to stay close to Yevon, but Tidus disagree. It doesn't help to calm the situation.

So, I'm not sure about Yuna's real traits, but am I wrong with what I've said ?  ???

But it's true that the events come one after another very quickly, and I admit this is disturbing.

kk

  • Guardian
  • *
  • Posts: 62
    • View Profile
Re: Final Fantasy X-2.5 : The Truth
« Reply #191 on: May 30, 2015, 02:10:42 pm »
Tidus' portrayal doesn't bother me. He's 17 after all. I think, like in the game, in this novel he sometimes is totally immature, but then at other times, he shows his maturity. I think the novel should have a bit MORE maturity, considering everything he's gone through and how much character development he underwent in X, but whatever. I can live with it. :p

However, I absolutely find the idea that Yuna thinks he's being a 'child' and that it's a source of annoyance for her to be ridiculous. In X, it seems like so much of the reason she fell in love with him was because of how light-hearted he was. I understand that the circumstances were different in X, and that she needed him to be more childlike then because the darkness of her pilgrimage. BUT, in X-2, she herself becomes much more childlike and free-spirited, inspired partially by him. (I think Rikku, too, but also him!) So, what's the problem? Why, in a matter of days, has she gone from loving and even admiring those traits of his, to being annoyed by them? Sure, absense makes the heart fonder, but... Yuna seems like practically the most accepting person in the world, in both games. She almost never says or thinks a bad thing about a single person in the games, from what we see. Why is she suddenly so judgemental???

That whole thing feels so fabricated JUST for the sake of having relationship conflict, in my opinion. Why do this when there's plenty of other, less stupid things they could be arguing over. :p

Like, I can totally see Yuna's support of Yevon and her compulsive need to involve herself in Spira's well-being (even if it means ignoring her own personal wants, like, spending time with him) as a source of conflict for them! I think they were onto something with that. But this??? No. >_>
« Last Edit: May 30, 2015, 02:13:31 pm by kk »

CrystalOfLies

  • Administrator
  • Summoner
  • *
  • Posts: 184
  • Boathouses, man.
    • View Profile
Re: Final Fantasy X-2.5 : The Truth
« Reply #192 on: May 30, 2015, 03:11:58 pm »
Exactly. I'm not bothered by Tidus' portrayal all that much, but Yuna's is a real shock for me. She can even be considered unlikeable.

She dressed similarly to him with her Gunner dressphere and even mimicked his battle stance with her Warrior one. His outspoken and rash quotes inspired her to become a sphere hunter and go on a journey for herself. She recalls all their times together, even practically acting like him... and now she's being all like, "Hmph! He did this and that, and won't even do this or that! He's being so optimistic! What a child!" She's a bit of a hypocrite to be honest. :P

Everybody can say, "Oh, but this is part of the story! It'll all make sense later on! You just don't get it and you judge too quickly!" But that's exactly it. It's like Nojima is just creating all this contrived drama to stir up a ruckus, and then passing it off as 'plot' to excuse himself. It's a completely convoluted way of telling a story. I know Spira is known for its deep lore but this is just silly. Next you'll be telling me that this novella isn't in chronological order.

Do you know why I loved the TidusYuna dynamic so much? It's because their relationship didn't have this drama that is scattered throughout the book. I thought it was very sweet how they just got along, admired each other and taught each other without any of these 'buts' and 'I wishes'. It's meant to be a fantasy story after all, and I thought the notion that they were complete opposites and were created for one another was adorable. It's a literal 'When the Sun met the Moon' relationship.

I thought Nojima would at least tribute this, considering that we spent one game building up their love and another trying to reunite them. But no. I can't feel the romance anywhere in this story. Tidus gets ditched, later on she tells him that she's going to follow Yevon again then they get washed up. Tidus is feeling lonely and is trying to 'regain her confidence' while Yuna seems completely oblivious or uncaring, suddenly judging every little thing he does. They feel more like acquaintances that were forced to work together rather than a couple.

This is a complete change to the formula. A sudden one without any explanation; it was established as soon as the novella started. As a long-time fan of the FFX universe I feel like this novella (and by extent the audio drama) isn't thanking me for being a fan, but rather slapping me in the face and mocking me for being one. But hey, it's just my opinion. And I'm getting worked up again.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2015, 03:16:28 pm by CrystalOfLies »
The official 'Shinra' of the FFX boards.

Wanna know stuff? Ask me. "I know everything."

I somehow can't answer? "... I'm just a kid."

kk

  • Guardian
  • *
  • Posts: 62
    • View Profile
Re: Final Fantasy X-2.5 : The Truth
« Reply #193 on: May 30, 2015, 03:55:56 pm »
I do like the idea of them having conflict, because irl, couples fight, and I love realistic relationships... but I don't want that conflict to be at the expense of their characters, either! If they weren't getting along for reasons that actually made SENSE, I would have no issue with it! I'm not a fan who thinks my favorite characters and ships are without fault. But this whole drama between them is like reading those terrible fics where one half of the couple cheats on the other or does something else entirely unlikely, just so that the author can create drama, to eventually romantically reunite them in some huge dramatic way. :P I expect more from an official novel...

I do appreciate that Yuna clarifies that she wants to be with him, regardless. But for me, that doesn't excuse her acting bizarrely towards him... not speaking to him for hours, and then being annoyed at him when they finally DO spend time together. That's not the Yuna I came to know when playing the games, and I agree: this is not the couple I watched grow together in X, and rooted for in X-2. :/

I feel kinda lame for focusing on the romance of the story more than aything else, because I know there are other interesting things going on, but at the same time, their love is one of the huge reasons that X & X-2 are dear to so many fans. And so far, I agree: I don't think Nojima is respecting or paying homage to that. It's really upsetting, because I enjoy many things about this game, but what comes foremost for me is the CHARACTERS and their relationships. That's what made me absolutely fall in love with the games. And these new additions don't seem to put any emphasis at all on those things... :/



THAT SAID, on a somewhat related note... would you guys mind if, if I gave you full credit for the translation and linked back to here, if I kind of rework this translation a little bit and reposted it somewhere? I think some of the people who follow me on my blog would be interested in reading this, but the way Yuna and Tidus speak in this is very different to how they sound in the games, and I think that would throw people off. So I'd like to rewrite the dialogue a little to make it sound more like them! Not to change or alter the translation at all, just like... reword it, basically. The meaning of their words would be the exact same, just expressed differently, basically.  :p I write a lot of FFX fic & roleplaying, so I think I have a fairly decent grasp of how their characters speak in the English version, so I'd like to make it try to sound that way, if that makes any sense?? It's not a matter of me wanting to change the translation or anything, I just want to kind of make their dialogue sound more like it does in the games.

It just kind of sounds like a sort of fun project to do for me, since I love writing as the FFX characters in roleplay and fics anyway. But I'd be tweaking your translation just a tiny bit, so if that bothers you, it's totally okay if you don't want me to do that!!! If you would rather that I didn't, I have no issue with that! I'll just keep on reading your great work, no matter what ^^

CrystalOfLies

  • Administrator
  • Summoner
  • *
  • Posts: 184
  • Boathouses, man.
    • View Profile
Re: Final Fantasy X-2.5 : The Truth
« Reply #194 on: May 30, 2015, 04:06:41 pm »
Hey, that's a good idea. I write a fair bit of FFX fanfiction myself (I'm even working on an AU right now, and pretty much all I've written is TxY fluff and stories) so it'll be nice seeing how you handle it.
The official 'Shinra' of the FFX boards.

Wanna know stuff? Ask me. "I know everything."

I somehow can't answer? "... I'm just a kid."